Last night, fairly early on the Wednesday Night Worlds ride, Kevin Limpach flatted. When I rolled by, he asked for a CO2 canister, which I didn't have - I have a small hand pump to better handle the sealant in my road tubeless setup.
Because of the nature of the ride (big group, really strung out) and the riders I was with (I was escorting a couple of customers on their first WNW ride), I was never really in a position to let the group know that Kevin was back there. And, honestly, I was more worried about my charges than Kevin (sorry, man).
Mike Miles stopped and hooked up Kevin with some air and I didn't think about it again until the regroup at Florence Mill. Kevin was pissed that I didn't offer to stop (after seeing Mike stop, I didn't think it was necessary), but also that the group kept rolling.
And this is where we get to the crowd-participation portion of the blog post: what's our responsibility to each other when something like this comes up? Obviously, we'd all like a wheel to help us reconnect with the group. Given my situation - shepherding new riders in a big group - I felt like I needed to keep rolling, especially since Mike stopped and I didn't have the necessary tools anyway.
But I also inadvertently left one of our riders by the side of the road. (Apologies, again.)
So ... what say you, Omaha?
26 comments:
It depends. There was a flat at the end of the ride last night, but several men stopped and I was freezing, so I went on.
In your case, I think it depended on how far off the lead group you were. If already chasing, just stop and add one more to your chase group. Party of four is a great way to get in threshold work and practice being in a break. If I remember correctly, sprinting isn't your thing, so from a training perspective, it would have worked out.
Plus, you would have given Kevin the opportunity to turn down the use of a 500-pump (if it's like my small handpump) inflation experience, in which case you could have proceeded.
Finally, could have been you. So, probably should have stopped. Karma points, you know.
he asked for a CO2 canister
You had a pump.
It seems like you missed an opportunity to demonstrate courtesy.
Ah, but if his needs are already taken care of - Mike stopped with CO2, remember - do I need to stop?
And we weren't chasing, yet, but the group was big and strung out. With stoplights and such, we'd been split up a few times already.
I think the question is more along the lines of "does the whole group need to stop," rather than "do I, personally, need to stop."
If someone flats at the start, the whole group stops. After the first attack, however, you could very well be on your own. It's WNW, after all.
You had an opportunity to stop first.
To your credit, you looked back.
And Kevin got his air; it seems like he missed an opportunity to be gracious in return.
I was with Kevin when he flatted. We were on the front during the neutral roll-out, and I yelled "Kevin's flat!" I thought most everybody heard me.
Personally, I didn't think I'd be any help to Kevin in chasing back on. I also assumed we'd soft-pedal for a while. And we did, until the base of the climb, when the normal acceleration happened. I sat up at that point, but by then I'd forgotten about Kevin.
This is a bit off-topic, but: if the rider in front of us had pointed out the huge pothole that caused Kevin's pinch flat, we wouldn't have to have this conversation.
Kevin wasn't ungracious as much as he was making sure I didn't completely blow him off. I didn't feel like I would be able to help.
All in all, it sounds like we all could have done better. Maybe next time, I guess.
Curmudgeon's response:
Well with all those fancy swoopy plastic bikes, there's no room for a frame pump. That's what everyone needs! FRAME PUMPS!!
I guess the main question is, did Kevin show up to a ride without any flat repair items? If he tried to repair, but his CO2 failed him, then he needs to look into getting a mini-pump so he's more self reliant. However, if he showed up to a major ride with missing items in his seatpack(or no seatpack), then it's kinda on him. I wouldn't expect anyone on a ride to be my personal soigneur, nor would I expect to do that for others.
That being said, I'll always jump at the chance to help someone who's flatted and isn't familiar with the repair process. Most people on WNWs don't fit into that category though.
I have no dog in this fight, however I do recall waiting for several minutes at Democracy Park after you (Bryan) flatted on the trail last year. That early in the ride I would think common courtesy would be to stop and let them catch up.
Generally speaking...
1) On group rides that large and with daylight in high demand, the group rolls period. We spend enough stoppage time at North O Airport and Ft. Calhoun they'll catch up. If not, there's multiple short cuts.
2) You should always have your own tools to fix a flat period. Tube (with the correct length valve stem), tire levers, and inflation device (pump, co2 or combo). If you don't have these items you should have to get your phone out and call for a ride. If this happens once, you'll come prepared next time. Time to grow up and take responsibility for yourself, this isn't kindergarten. (is that too harsh? hell no, it's reality, suck it up. You want to hear harsh? I'm not going to ruin my ride because you're lazy and can't take care of yourself, want me to wipe your ass for you too? Oh wait I'm not your Mom, too bad)
3) If this was that someones second puncture of the day, you're damn straight I'd stop and help.
4) I carry a tube, tire levers, two CO2 cartridges and glue-less patches. It all fits in a water bottle, not a big deal.
5) In this case, Kevin was back on in Ft. Calhoun, but where was Miles? Hmmm
If it was anyone else stay, in this case he belongs to his teammates, leave his ass!
Actually I was riding without air as well, I lost my co2, although I did have tubes. If I had known he didn't have air I would have made Mod stop and then attacked the group like a mad man.
My bad and I apologize for thinking someone should help a fellow cyclist out. I do sincerely apologize...I should of just kept my mouth shut.
Bryan was upset because I said I'd be walking you said you had a pump and you shrugged your shoulders and kept riding away. Mike was behind you and the last guy and turned back. I was pissed because I guess I didn't expect that from you? Didn't I just make a special trip to the store to loan you and the other Trek guys the 3 kits? Didn't I walk a Gatorade over to you after you had a tough road race Saturday? Didn't I turn back and wait with you last year?
I led the other group ride from Trek Store for the last 3 years and changed several flats for others, donated tubes and many CO2's. I've also help several of my old teammates and other teams guys on WNR and TNR bridge back up after they flatted.
I had everything but CO2 can, always carry 1 of not 2 and 1 if not 2 tubes with the correct size valve stem. In this case I had just paid 8.99 for a tube a Trek Omaha. I thought I had CO2 in the car and couldn't find one so made a bad judgment call that with brand new tires and 40 bikes on the ride that I could borrow one. I ride with the stuff in my jersey pocket, I'm sure it's cooler to ride with it in a water bottle.
MOD I don't expect you do anything for me and certainly not wipe my ass. I was wiping my own ass long before my Mom passed when I was 18.
Mike pulled off the road with Bryan, I would of stopped but they had a small group and had it under control.
I do have a cell phone and don't plan on a pump. I've never had a issue like this before so I can live with it.
Shim, not sure what to say.
OK ... OK. Let's get this cleared up so we can go ride our bikes and get on with it.
I didn't stop for two reasons:
1. I didn't have what you asked for. I have a pump, you asked for CO2. Mike, who was right beside me and heard me tell you as much, said, "I have CO2." So he stopped.
2. I was guiding a pair of new and inexperienced riders through their first WNW ride. With the size of the group and the amount of close-quarters riding, I felt it was pretty important to keep them — and therefore the group — safe and upright. I will not apologize for putting the safety of any of the riders first. Ever. Regardless, it's a moot point: Mike stopped.
And yes, of course I appreciate the generosity you've shown me. I've said as much to you, numerous times. Despite the fact that you beat me senseless every single time we ride together, I do enjoy riding with you.
But you should know that whatever gesture I made — unintentionally, in this case — wasn't aimed at you. If you perceived it to be that way, I'm sorry.
Dude, you need to chill out, don't overreact to what I said, it wasn't pointed at you. My response would be the same regardless. Go back and read any of my ride postings on Group Ride Omaha. You are responsible for you.
The group was so big I didn't even know you flatted.
Go reread my points 1 and 2 and rethink your comment
Now, about those rides this weekend
Make that points 1 and 3
Bryan - couple points I may highlight; instead of saying you don't have CO2 and rolled away, you could have said "I have a pump" and given Kev the option saying "thanks" or "no thanks". When a customer asks you for an item you don't have, you don't simply say "I don't have it"....you tell them what you do have.
Secondly, if this was a couple riders first time at WNW, you could've taken this as an opportunity to show them how cyclists all try to help each other out.
On the flip side, these newbies probably didn't have repair items with them and if you're taking it upon yourself to be responsible for them, then you could not very well leave your pump with Kev.
Ultimately, Mr. Miles stopped, Kev rejoined the group and properly applied a ridiculous amount of pain.
I was totally joking, no need to say anything. I would be less concerned about the air (had I had any), but rather the chance to drop the world blogging champions on the first hill. Come on you have to admit this whole post and all its comments are totally ridiculous. Of course you stop if you can help and in exchange you help the person who helped you (what happened to Miles?)there are only a few people in the greater Omaha cycling community I wouldn't help. Besides by taking you out of the picture we had a much better chance for the 1st points sprint.
After some serious investigation into the incident, allow me to re-enact how I believe things happened...
[Kevin flats]
Kevin: Hey Bryan, do you have a CO2?
Bryan: No, I only have a pump.
Kevin: Okay, nevermind, I only fill my tires with CO2.
Pretty lame Bryan.
sigh.
Seems we have alot of comments about this. The one I would like to make is, I do know (as most of you would also agree...I assume) that the ride is a lot more "fun" with Kevin in it.
Great read. I'll throw my .02 in...
1) Be prepared, know what you do and don't have and be ready to flag someone down quickly (or call for a ride) if you choose to ride without the necessary equipment. Kevin, did you know that you didn't have air before you left?
2) I think if you're trailing behind the "flatee" it's your obligation to make sure they have what they need to get going again. Even if this just means slowing down and confirming that they're okay.
3)Telling someone that you only have a pump when they ask for CO2 is inexcusable. You could have told the newbies to soft pedal and bridged up in no time.
I want to repeat something, for the 15th goddamn time:
Within seconds of me saying I had no CO2, Mike said he did have some and turned around to give it to Kevin. Had he not done that, of course I would have helped out. But my particular situation was nullified by a better alternative.
It's like this:
"Hey, my car's battery is dead. What do you say you grab this package of D-cell batteries, wire 'em together and see if we can jump it?
Other guy pipes in, "Oh, I have a car right here we could use to jump it."
A better alternative? So we wouldn't worry about the dude with the D-cells, right?
Ha - Love it. Who hasn't been pissed when you are ramping it up and someone flats? Or been on the other side when it was you that flatted?
And using a Co2 cartridge as your only method of filling a tire? Seen to many failed attempts at inflating a tire with a CO2, then left with nothing. Plus a little physical energy never hurt anyone using a pump, doesn't really take a whole lot longer...and the bigger the pumper the better, right Mike? Plus are CO2 cartridges green? It is Earth day isn't it?
So I heard this is place for waffles and what not ? No ?
I don't post here, I mostly lurk so i'm going to keep it short. You can never, ever leave for a ride without everything you need to take care of your self. If that means a special trip to the LBS. than so be it. They need your business anyway, right? Living in colorado and riding by myself almost all the time I always have
extra tube, 2 patch kits,pump, tire levers and a chainbreak tool/multi tool.
I hate walking my bike.
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